[Sticky] Open Forum

Trinity or no trinity?

Is the God of the Bible a Trinity?

The simple answer I have is "No." However, nothing important in life is simple, and in my opinion, this is the most important topic related to the Bible and faith.

My reasoning is straightforward: If you're wrong about this, it leads to idolatry—the gravest error one can commit in matters of faith.

Here are my reasons why the concept of the Trinity is not biblical:

1. The word "Trinity" is never used in the Bible—neither in English, Greek, Latin nor Hebrew.
2. No verse in the Bible explicitly states that God is a "three-in-one" being, person, or entity.
3. The people of Israel, through whom we received the Scriptures, never portrayed God as three persons—only as one being, the Father.
4. Christ never referred to God as "they" or "them" (no pun intended).
5. The "Son" and the "Spirit" are always referred to as being "of God," but never God the Son or God the Spirit. (they are of God, they belong to God, which is the Father).
   • It's a one-way relationship. Both the Spirit and the Son submit to the Father. Nowhere in the Bible do we see the Father submitting to anyone.
6. Paul explicitly states that "God is the Father" and that "Christ is the Lord."
   • He also says, "The Lord is that Spirit." I'm quite certain Paul knew what he was saying.
7. The few verses used to "prove" the Trinity have historical issues and contradictions with the rest of Scripture.
   • I will list them below and address them one by one. 
8. If the Trinity were biblical and was truly revealed by Christ to the apostles, they seemed to have missed the message.
   • The "Great Commission" instructs to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet, in the book of Acts, all baptisms were conducted solely in the name of Jesus. Should the apostles be fired for getting it wrong? I don't think so.
9. The doctrine of the Trinity is a "mystery" by definition, according to its proponents.
   • They tell us plainly that we cannot fully understand it—yet, if I don't believe in it, I am lost forever? I choose common sense and rationality. The Bible teaches wisdom, not confusion.
10. If the Father is God and Jesus is God, does that mean God prayed to God?(that raises a few questions)

• At Jesus' baptism, did God anoint God with God? That doesn’t align with Psalm 45:7 or Hebrews 1:9.
• When Jesus said, "I and the Father are one," did He forget about God the Holy Spirit?
• When He prayed for His disciples to be one, did they suddenly become a dozen-person entity? ("That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us." John 17:21)
• The Father and the Son are one in spirit—just as believers are also one in spirit with them. Does that make all believers part of the Trinity?

11. It took over three centuries for the doctrine of the Trinity to be formulated and widely accepted in Christianity.

• If it took 300+ years to develop, that means it wasn’t there to begin with. Lots of people were killed because of it. We should make everyone aware of that.

   12. Does the word "ELOHIM" denotes plurality and the word "echad" (one) means a committee of some sorts?

      # If that is the case, whenever we come across this word in the Bible we need to read it as such. The problem with that is the same word is translated as God, gods, angels, judges, mighty, great, exceeding, God-ward, godly, etc.

For the fact that today most of us don`t speak Hebrew, our safest tools are #different translations, #STRONG Concordance and #context.   With that in mind let's look at a few different examples in the Bible.

1. In Exodus 7:1 the Lord made Moses a god (ELOHIM) to Pharaoh. Moses didn`t become a 3in1 person\being\entity of any sorts. Chapter 11 of Exodus shows in context what actually happened: God made Moses very great in front of the people, gave him power and authority over them.
2. Psalm 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. The word for "angels" used here is the word ELOHIM. Should be translated as gods.
3. Exodus 21:6 "Then his master shall bring him unto the judges;" The word "judges" is again ELOHIM.

We can go on and check example after example and see the word ELOHIM has the meaning of power, seat of authority, majesty, rulership..It doesn't talk about a type of beings, but about a class of ruling powers. The "im" at the end of the word doesn`t always denote plurality in the normal sense of the word, but in the sense of greatness and majesty. In many languages royalty and authority are addressed in the plural, and nobody is confused about the singularity of the person addressed. You can see many other examples of words in Hebrew with the termination "im" and the context shows it is talking about one singular thing: cherubim, seraphim, Shamayim (sky), Tzohorayim (Midday). There are also many other cases where the termination "im" at the end of a word denotes plurality, like in: kibbutzim (gathering), klavim (dogs), Navi’im (prophets). It goes both ways, we just have to check the context, the full picture, without trying to tilt the perspective in our favour.

I hope people will stop taking the word of high ranking ministers as "scriptures" and go and check the verses and the contexts for themselves. The Bible doesn't say God is 3in1 anything, or God that is more than one singular being, person or entity.

Now, for the word “echad” (one), I want to address the perspective trinitarians chose to have over the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) where they say the word “one” is used as a unity and not as in numeral one “1”.

The reasoning goes like this:

• Because the word “echad” is used in verses like Genesis 1:5 "And there was evening and there was morning, one day", or Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh", the word “one” represents a compound unit. Because one day is composed of evening and morning and the man and the woman are one flesh, the trinitarians are saying that the “one Lord” is composed of three persons.

A few problems with those examples:

•  The evening and the morning are milestones for beginning and ending of the day, not half and half portions that make the day, and also the “one flesh” the man and the woman “became”, is not one compound. It's regrettable that we need to explain here what that “one flesh” means, but they just came together for a little time for a specific purpose, they didn't become a different being or any type of compound.
• Luckily, in the New Testament, we have a situation that addresses this exact passage:

Mark 12 

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord (...)

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but HE.

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

No matter how much Hebrew language you might know, this context shows that Jesus and the scribe talk about one singular individual being, (the Father) in this context. It's he and him, not they or them. Ask and it shall be given, knock and it shall be open, seek and you shall find... We have all that we need to understand the Scriptures in the Scriptures.

         Now, as promised in point 7, let's examine the key verses:

Old Testament

• Genesis 1:2
  "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (god the spirit is right there, verse 2 of the Bible, they say...)
  • This refers to the Spirit belonging to God, not "god the Spirit." There is a difference between the spirit of John, or John the spirit. Nobody would be confused in this instance. Why do people go funny when its about God`s spirit?
• Genesis 1:26
  "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Us and Ours is more than one they say...)
  • And yet, He made two, not three—one coming from the other. (And by the way, they were one flesh, not one body.)
  • If this verse proves anything in regards to multiple deityes, it`s two not three, and one is the source of the other, hence the Father and the Son
• Isaiah 9:6
  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given... and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
  • Trinitarians emphasize "Counselor","Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" to support their view. But these are titles attributed to Christ for what He would accomplish—future roles, not proof of a triune God. And if you look in the verse, there are five titles, not three. So what do we call a 5in1 deity? a quintet?...

New Testament

• Matthew 28:19
  "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." (Case closed, right? Not so fast...)
  • Many assume this proves three distinct persons, but the verse doesn’t actually say that.
  • The book of Acts shows that baptisms were always performed in the name of Jesus alone, indicating that the apostles understood the Great Commission differently than modern Trinitarians do. Either they were completly wrong and should be fired, or Christianity has the wrong perspective today and should repent.
• 1 John 5:7 (KJV)
  "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
  • This verse has a long history of textual controversy (research "Textus Receptus").
  • It was contested from the very beginning of translation efforts. If it shouldn’t be there in the first place, should we be using it as proof?
  • The funny thing is, if you read the verse before and after this verse, the outcome changes: verse 6 talks about Jesus, and how he came both by water and by blood, (both used as symbols here), and these are witnessing about who and what Jesus was and is. The verses also says the spirit is the truth, but John also says Jesus is the truth (Jn14:6), so the spirit that bears witness here is inside of Jesus, its his spirit. Because if the spirit is someone else, then in verse 8 we run into a ridiculous problem. Watch this: if the spirit in verse 7 (the holy ghost) is a distinct person from the Father and the Word (Son), then in verse 8 because the spirit is a person, the water and blood are also distinct persons, right? I hope your answer is "wrong"... We are in this situation because verse 7 was added later. If you read the chapter without it, everything fits seamless.
• Matthew 3:16-17
  "As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment, heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'”
  • The argument goes like this:

 The Father in heaven = God, the Son in the water = God, and the Spirit (the dove) = God.

• But if all three are God, wouldn't that mean we worship three Gods (polytheism)?
• The biblical meaning of this moment is clear: it was the anointing of the Son by the Father, not a display of a triune deity. (not God anointing God with God)

Final Thoughts

If the doctrine of the Trinity is true, there are major problems:

1. The Kingdom of God becomes a democracy rather than a monarchy.
2. Jesus didn't really die on the cross, since He was "fully God" and "fully man."
   • If He was still God, then part of Him never died, making His sacrifice meaningless.
3. Jesus is not truly the Son if He is co-eternal with the Father.
   • A son must come after the father, yet the Trinity says they are coequal and coeternal. None comes after the other, none comes from the other.
4. Jesus’ prayers become performative.
   • If He were fully God, why pray to the Father at all?
5. The Trinity creates an incoherent image of God.
   • Nowhere does Scripture describe a "three-person deity" sitting on the throne.

I`m looking forward to questions, pros and cons to the thoughts above.

If you believe I have overlooked something, let me know in the comments so we can examine it through Scripture. 🙏